Lidová tvořivost absinthem poznamenaná.

[Tuvy]

Ne, že bych chtěl jakkoliv rozpoutávat flame, ale poslední dva příspěvky jsou kouzelné - to je jako z jiného světa
Také nejsem kritik, ale hodnocení umění není otázkou vkusu.

[keltos]

Habu, platí i toto dosazení do rovnice?
Pokud přijmu premisu, že absinthe je otázkou vkusu (chuť, vůně...), pak nemám právo (alespoň pokud nechci někoho ranit) o žádném tvrdit, že to je, nebo není dobrý, jelikož vkus (chuť, vůně...) se pohybuje v subjektivní rovině.

[Slovi]

Habu, platí i toto dosazení do rovnice?
Pokud přijmu premisu, že absinthe je otázkou vkusu (chuť, vůně...), pak nemám právo (alespoň pokud nechci někoho ranit) o žádném tvrdit, že to je, nebo není dobrý, jelikož vkus (chuť, vůně...) se pohybuje v subjektivní rovině.

Když už to bereme takto vědátorsky tak:

Chuť, vůně i další dílčí aspekty hodnoceného objektu jsou sub-objekty hodnocené kritikem. Kritika spočívá v porovnávání díla (objektu) s jeho "IDEÁLEM" v dané kategorii a kvalita objektu se rovná míře přiblížení k ideálu, popřípadě osobním přínosu atd. V kritice si tedy člověk musí stanovit jistou hranici, (něco jako nulu v ose X, tzn. průměr) kde do kladných čísel až k ideálu budou body plusové, v záporných mínusové. A pak je třeba se snažit o co největší objektivitu při zadávání hodnot a výslednému hodnocení objektu (které se ale NEMUSÍ shodovat se subjektivním názorem líbí/nelíbí).

Nemluvě o tom, že ač to je možná nepříjemné, nemělo by se v kritice hledět na city tvůrce, protože to pak negativně ovlivňuje kritiku a kritika je pro dotyčného v důsledku i méně přínosná.

[Tibro]

I take a Kantian approach to aesthetics. If we judge a work of art by what is present in the object than this leads to the conclusion that we can set-up objective criteria that are valid at all times and in all places. We could write a mechanistic computer program that would be able to evaluate whether an object qualifies as art or not.

If the evaluation is based on approaching an ideal then we are faced with the dilemma that the creator of a given object for aesthetic evaluation has a privileged position to judge whether the object obtains to the title of art or not. It is not difficult to see the fallacy, and danger, in this position. Do we want "artists" to be the only ones capable of telling us how great their aesthetic objects are, how closely they approach the ideal that was intended for them? I think not.

I think each of us is capable of making our own evaluations of whether an object creates in us an aesthetic response, a complex reaction involving the intellect, the emotions, ineffable feelings of particularity and inclusiveness when faced with an object to consider. It is not our subjective taste any more than it is the objective qualities of the object. It is an interaction and it's not constant with time, place or the individual involved.

The aesthetic response is a unique constellation of things that come together at a particular time, in a particular place in response to particular circumstances by a particular person. When I've gone to a museum to look at a particular work of art, sometimes I've had an intellectual response. Other times my response was especially emotional. On rare occasions I have a full-blown aesthetic response which is clear and distinct in my experience.

Same thing happens when I drink absinthe. Sometimes it's just a particularly flavored beverage. Other times it's a romantic, nostalgic excursion. Still other times I analyze it, consciously and with an intellectual focus. And occasionally I am transported by an aesthetic experience which transcends all of the individual permutations and facets.

Your mileage may vary.

[Habu]

Habu, platí i toto dosazení do rovnice?
Pokud přijmu premisu, že absinthe je otázkou vkusu (chuť, vůně...), pak nemám právo (alespoň pokud nechci někoho ranit) o žádném tvrdit, že to je, nebo není dobrý, jelikož vkus (chuť, vůně...) se pohybuje v subjektivní rovině.

U absinthu ale máme mnohem jasnější definici než u umění. Absinthe nemá být hořký, nemá mít barvu jako toxický odpad a neměl by vonět po moči. O definici umění takhle jasně mluvit nemůžeme.

Také nejsem kritik, ale hodnocení umění není otázkou vkusu.

O umění (alespoň ode mě v předchozích příspěvcích) tu napadlo ani slovo.

[Tibro]

absinthu ale máme mnohem jasnější definici než u umění. Absinthe nemá být hořký, nemá mít barvu jako toxický odpad a neměl by vonět po moči. O definici umění takhle jasně mluvit nemůžeme.

Are you implying that absinthe is not art? That which we call "art" has often been made first and foremost as a commercial product. Fine art prints can be produced in editions of hundreds, if not thousands. This doesn't disqualify them as art necessarily, does it? And absinthe can be made one bottle at time with no thought of commercial ends. Each bottle unique and slightly different than the last.

Absinthe, from what we know, probably had plenty of brands before the ban that were poorly made, probably bitter, most certainly containing additives intended to increase the aesthetic appeal of the color and louche, but also quite literally toxic to the user's health, unlike today with ingredient laws which protect consumers' health.

Absinthe might be a particular genre of art, just as oil painting or bronze sculpture might be. There are limits within any genre, and also great freedoms and room for personal expression.

At least that might be another perspective from which to look at it.

[Dworzaaa]

Jiste..absinth je umeni, ale preci jen existuje nejaky standard ze ktereho se da vychazet a kdyz se objevi nejaky odlisny produkt, tak uz zalezi na tom, jak recenzentovi sedne....U umeni je to podle me jine...tam neexistuje zadny standard a de o trochu vic nez jen o to, jak dilo vypada.. Rozhodne umeni nijak nerozumim..mozna prave proto, kdyz sem tedkon s pritelkyni prolejzal celou narodni galerii, tak mi nad nekteryma dilama zustaval rozum stat a rikal sem si, co to sakra dela na tak cestnym miste, jako je narodni galerie...treba sem moc nepochopil serii velkoformatovych fotek, kde vyvrhli jehne a vnitrnosti patlali po genitaliich nahy zensky....ale nejspis to jen nedokazu odcenit...

[Habu]

<serious talk>

Art is a very distinctive thing for me. I don't take absinthe as something "artish". Absinthe is a beverage, not a piece of art... at least for me. Good absinthe might be a result of a fine craftsmanship, but not art. Sometimes when I drink absinthe I also get expressions similar to art experience (music, movies, paintings, sculptures or even performances), though I believe that's because of the alcohol and various herbs playing with my brain.

It's all about definition. I'm not blaming anyone who takes absinthe as art. And I'm not blaming anyone who doesn't.

If we judge a work of art by what is present in the object than this leads to the conclusion that we can set-up objective criteria that are valid at all times and in all places. We could write a mechanistic computer program that would be able to evaluate whether an object qualifies as art or not.

Yes and that souhld be a™!

</serious talk>

[Tibro]

Art is a very distinctive thing for me. I don't take absinthe as something "artish". Absinthe is a beverage, not a piece of art... at least for me.

And before Marcel Duchamp came along this would never have been considered art:

Good absinthe might be a result of a fine craftsmanship, but not art.

Kind of like a Hollywood movie then, huh?

Sometimes when I drink absinthe I also get expressions similar to art experience (music, movies, paintings, sculptures or even performances), though I believe that's because of the alcohol and various herbs playing with my brain.

So if the resultant state of being can be traced to the effects of a particular foreign (emphasis added) presence in the body that's a deal-breaker?

[Tibro]

a rikal sem si, co to sakra dela na tak cestnym miste, jako je narodni galerie...

The hallowed halls of art? Fuck 'em. Or Fluxus 'em. Just because you see something in a museum doesn't mean it's art. Or because it's not in a museum that it isn't art. A lot of the "art" produced during the last 100 years has been about not taking ourselves and our endeavors too seriously. And then it winds up in some museum being taken all too seriously.

Booze, too. Serious stuff.